For you Neanderthals versed in etiquette

"VincentMalamute-Kim" (VincentMalamute-Kim) 11/06/2020 at 23:12 • Filed to: None

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I was mtn biking Devil’s Backbone in Loveland today and these rocks tried to kill me. Full face helmet for the win! I face planted and my foam armored shorts proved their value too.

When hikers pulled off the trail to let us pass, I said “Thank you, sir” and Thank you, ma’a m”. My friend told me that was ageist and offensive. I don’t remember his arguments entirely so I’m not presenting his side well.

I respond like a 3rd grader when people tell me what to do so my reaction has been “you’re not the boss of me” and feel like calling everyone “ma’a m” now.

But it’s entirely possible I’ve missed societal changes. Am I a Neanderthal? Should I just say “Thank you, dude” to everyone, male and female?

jminer > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/06/2020 at 23:23

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There is a shift in communication where the youths find things like proper grammer and punctuation passive aggressive.

I don't get it and feel like shouting at the clouds when it comes up.

PowderHound > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/06/2020 at 23:26

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Thank you, have a great ride/hike/time!

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/06/2020 at 23:26

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the guys a prick?

VincentMalamute-Kim > jminer 11/06/2020 at 23:27

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“Ma’am” is no longer considered appropriate usage?

Dead_Elvis, Inc. > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/06/2020 at 23:28

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Get a new friend. 

VincentMalamute-Kim > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 11/06/2020 at 23:28

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He’s a nice guy, good guy.  I’m most likely being a passive-aggressive prick in my response to him telling me what to do.

smobgirl > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/06/2020 at 23:29

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As a runner/hiker who almost always moves for bikes, I’m just thrilled at any acknowledgment   that I yielded when I didn’t have to. You can call me Barney if you feel like it, just please don’t buzz my elbow  at full speed like you own the place (not that you’d do that).

Although, on his side, I’d be reluctant to use sir/ma’am in that situation just because, as I see it, the gender/age of the person you’re addressing isn’t really relevant and it’s not worth an incorrect guess.

VincentMalamute-Kim > PowderHound 11/06/2020 at 23:29

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That works. But it makes me work on my passive-aggressive issues.

Question: “Ma’am” is no longer considered appropriate usage?

It’s been pointed out that it’s not needed and possibly risky so I’ll drop it.

VincentMalamute-Kim > smobgirl 11/06/2020 at 23:33

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I’m very solicitous towards hikers because I know bikes annoy them. And if annoyed enough, bikes could be restricted on trails.

That was the answer I was looking for - just no need to use those terms.  Got it.

AestheticsInMotion > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/06/2020 at 23:33

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It comes across as old-fashioned, “ageist and offensive” is a a stretch though.

shop-teacher > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/06/2020 at 23:33

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My wife once admonished me for calling a woman about our age, maybe younger, ma’am. She said ma’am is for old ladies, and I should have used the term miss instead.

I dunno.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Dead_Elvis, Inc. 11/06/2020 at 23:34

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I have more issues than him. He should be the one to drop me as a f riend.

PowderHound > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/06/2020 at 23:35

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I don’t see an issue with it but I am usually a bit short with the words and fixated on either not hitting them or finding a spot to pull over so it’s more of a “Thanks!...... ....... Have fun!”

VincentMalamute-Kim > AestheticsInMotion 11/06/2020 at 23:35

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If it was just old-fashioned, I have no problems using it. It’s been pointed out that it’s unnecessary and possibly risky so I’ll drop it .

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/06/2020 at 23:36

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I don’t know why people think Neanderthals were not smart, their brains were bigger than Homo Sapiens, they even practiced trepanation. They just weren’t as suited for something that changed, but they were very adaptable for multiple ice ages, we don’t know why they died out . Sorry I was an archeology/anthro major, and I happen to be 2% Neanderthal so I will always bring this up.

VincentMalamute-Kim > shop-teacher 11/06/2020 at 23:36

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I thought it was harmless, that this was an unn ecessary kerfluffle but I’ll drop it. Smobgirl made a good point.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/06/2020 at 23:36

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When i quick read this “ When hikers pulled off the trail to let us pass, I said “Thank you, sir” and Thank you, ma’am”. My friend told me that was ageist and offensive. ”

opps, I read it as the hiker said that was ageist and not your friend.

Dead_Elvis, Inc. > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/06/2020 at 23:41

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Did you get even a slight whiff of discomfort from any of your possible victims? If not, don’t sweat it.

He could be helpful without being an extra- woke douche about it.

VincentMalamute-Kim > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 11/06/2020 at 23:42

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Yes, Sir / Yes Ma’am, I am now educated.

smobgirl > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/06/2020 at 23:43

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I think it’s well-intentioned! I just had a mortifying moment a few days ago where I   mis-gendered someone’s long-haired prepubescent child and maybe I’m a bit too careful. ( I was excited to see a little girl digging through the Hot Wheels bin. Except it wasn’t).

VincentMalamute-Kim > Dead_Elvis, Inc. 11/06/2020 at 23:44

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True, true. Now mainly curious if “Ma’am” really is considered not appropriate in our current society.

Svend > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/06/2020 at 23:46

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I say sir and ma’am. It’s common courtesy and polite.

Next time they say it, either tell them you were brought up with manners, not dragged up like others. Or do what I sometimes do, tell them to f**k off.

I was once told by a manager to stop saying sir, because it makes me sound subservient. I said no, they asked why, I told them because I was raised properly and as a person whose 'serving' someone, technically I am subservient to the customer. 

DipodomysDeserti > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/06/2020 at 23:48

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I would have assumed my friend was fucking with me if they said that. Only time I was chastised for calling someone sir was at the VA hospital. I was doing a patient intake and the guy told me to not to call him sir because he worked for a living. He then tried to light up a cigarette in the middle of the oncology clinic,  which I thought was awesome.

AestheticsInMotion > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/06/2020 at 23:50

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Probably depends more on area than anything. Seemed a lot more common when I traveled south, and I basically never hear it in the PNW. Occasionally a new employee calls me sir, which is a bit off-putting, but I don't say anything. Figure it's just a cultural or generation thing. 

Grindintosecond > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/07/2020 at 00:01

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Folks, is always a go to for me. And I’m glad your okay. Going over on to rocks is no bueno. I went over on the top of whiteface mountain in lake placid one summer and had swelling/fluid in my hip for a month.

Grindintosecond > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 11/07/2020 at 00:02

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They were smarter and stronger, but they could not run for endurance. They didn’t have neck tendons we do. They couldnt hunt animals to exhaustion.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Grindintosecond 11/07/2020 at 00:03

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Well that is true, but they managed to survive for a very long time despite that so my money is on something else. My research was on the Clovis people so I’m not an expert but I did have to study them.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Svend 11/07/2020 at 00:16

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Now I don’t know what to think. It seems there is no general agreement to prohibit Ma’am is what I’ m now getting from Oppo discussion.

VincentMalamute-Kim > DipodomysDeserti 11/07/2020 at 00:16

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If they have lung cancer and they’re going to die, they may as well smoke and go out happy .

VincentMalamute-Kim > Grindintosecond 11/07/2020 at 00:17

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I’m now going to get elbow and knee pads.  I’ve fallen enough and it hurts!

VincentMalamute-Kim > AestheticsInMotion 11/07/2020 at 00:19

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Not sure what to do - seems there is no general agreement on “ Ma’am” usage is what I’m getting from Oppo discussion now .

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/07/2020 at 00:26

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I don't think I like your friend.

VincentMalamute-Kim > This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: 11/07/2020 at 00:30

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You could be right regarding this facet of his personality - he might’ve handled this more diplomatically. I’m not sure, it could be me - I’m easily set off by minor affronts.

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/07/2020 at 00:37

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You did nothing wrong and were being a polite gentleman. To suggest that you were somehow being offensive is asinine, at least in my estimation. Quite judgmental of them to suggest oth erwi se i n fact.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/07/2020 at 00:54

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Real question:

Where is the miss/ma’am line? 

VincentMalamute-Kim > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/07/2020 at 01:13

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Dunno. I was using ma’am on all females from 0-100 years of age to avoid that issue.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/07/2020 at 01:26

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Haha! I think I draw it around 25-30.

My wife used to not like being ma’am-ed until I explained that  it’s a sign or respect. 

Dead_Elvis, Inc. > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/07/2020 at 01:26

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It can depend on a few things , I suppose . Context can be king. How old are you? I’m 50, and like Aesthet icsInMotion said, it’s not commonly heard in the northwest.

However, because it’s kinda unusual here, anachronistic and genteel without being pretentious, I enjoy using “ma’am” with certain people, both considerably older than myself and with a number of much younger friends & acquaintances. ( Granted, there are  no questions about how any of these women identify, but they all enjoy it - that’s been made clear, and were it any different, of course I’d ask what they prefer.)

Svend > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/07/2020 at 02:12

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In the U.K. lad or lass is acceptable, but they aren’t common terms used in the U.S.

Saying miss can sound condescending to some.

But general rule of thumb, try not to offend someone, if they are offended, just be curious and apologise, then mutter under your breathe as you walk away for them to sod off. Lol.   

Svend > Svend 11/07/2020 at 07:44

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Sorry, my phone ‘courteous ’ to ‘curious’.

sony1492 > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/07/2020 at 10:03

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One of the people at customer service got offended when someone called her ma’am,  she felt it was a reference to how old she looked.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Svend 11/07/2020 at 12:58

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That rule of thumb is probably good advice.

I’ll start using Thanks lad or Thanks l ass around here.  I can use those terms for any age?

VincentMalamute-Kim > Dead_Elvis, Inc. 11/07/2020 at 13:01

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I’m 56. I don’t know that affects the situation when using the terms on younger and older people.

VincentMalamute-Kim > sony1492 11/07/2020 at 13:02

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This is more complicated than I thought.

Svend > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/07/2020 at 13:13

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Cheers mate is often an easy one for all genders.

The best and least offensive, can’t be accused of gender bias, or age discrimination, etc... is simply a, ‘thanks’ or ‘thank you’.

But say it in a slightly raised manner so it’s properly heard as, ‘thank you’, can also sound like, ‘f**k you’, to people who aren’t expecting something to be said or are anticipate a sarcastic comment for them having been in the way. Lol. 

VincentMalamute-Kim > Svend 11/07/2020 at 13:17

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I like your Brit suggestions.  Or maybe go Aussie with “Thanks, ya cunt”

Svend > VincentMalamute-Kim 11/07/2020 at 13:23

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Ye’, that’s a Brit one as well. Americans are often surprised how often the word cunt is said. We might say it to friends, ‘how ya doing ya cunt!?’. Lol.